THOUGHT PROVOKER 120

Where Do The Blind Work

"Where do the blind work?" Jerome asked. He was fairly new with his blindness, a guy recovering from a recent head injury, a result of a gunshot wound. He was legally blind, his corrected visual acuity close to, but less than twenty over two hundred. "Back when I was working construction, I might have seen a few people with white canes like mine, walking along the streets, but I don't know where they were going or if they worked. An I'm sure I missed seeing a lot of guys like me that had poor sight, you know, maybe had real thick glasses and didn't use a cane. And I know I didn't go to school with any and I didn't work with any either. But I gotta figure out what I can do now."

"So Jerome, what I'm going to try and do here is to make you rethink and restate your question. I mean, yeah! I can sit here and rattle off a dozen or a dozen dozens of jobs that blind folks are doing. And maybe that's a good start. However, I know I'm only going to be able to as they say, touch on the tip of the iceberg. Like for every job I mention, there will be a dozen I miss. And more importantly, I'm sure there are dozens of other dozens of jobs out there that presently do not have blind guys in them, but are just waiting for some one like you or me to step up and be the first."

"What do'ya mean?"

"Well…follow me." Jerome and I had just finished meeting at a downtown coffee shop, it had been his assignment to find it on his own. "you are in luck. Within walking distance, I'm going to introduce you to a third of a dozen employed blind people and their blindness is similar to yours."

"Samuel, welcome! Who do you have there with you?" The warm, friendly voice of the receptionist said to us as we walked in.

"Rita, howdy.. I'd like you to meet Jerome." Turning to my companion, "This is one of the employed blind person's I want you to meet."

Later at the conclusion of our whirlwind tour. "so let's review what you learned."

"Well, first I met the receptionist. She greets people, answers the phone, types documents on the computer, scans old documents, prepares the mail and a bunch of other stuff."

"Okay, what lead her to that type of job?"

"She said she likes helping people, likes organizing stuff, likes to multi task."

"How about the next guy, the computer programmer?"

"Well, he ah, likes creating stuff, likes to work alone and…he talked about this was his best skill-set."

"Okay, the auto mechanic and how did he get into it?"

"He's always been into cars, did mechanic work before his eyes went bad and still likes it. And ah, people really doubted he could still do it and ah, he was stubborn, wouldn't say quit."

"Okay, how about the Roofer?"

"Woo, that guy blew me away. I used to roof and doing it now..." His voice fell away in thought.

"Stop there. What did he say he had to do for himself in order to get into it?"

"Yeah…ah, alternatives and confidence."

"Yeah." I said with a "that's right" tone. "think about what these people were saying. What were they stressing as the deep-down reasons that lead them to where they are at today?"

RESPONSES

e-mail responses to newmanrl@cox.net

**1. I think Jerome was very courageous to ask the question, "Where do the blind
work?" It's something that many people don't ask.

Here in Lancaster, Pa., the local Association for the Blind is very well
known and it's assumed that, if you're blind or visually impaired, that's
where you work. People also assume that they take us to doctor
appointments, shopping, and just about anywhere else we need to go.

So, rather than assuming, Jerome asked the question. He's newly blinded and
has the same ideas about blindness that most sighted people have. Now, it's
time for him to learn all over again.

The difference between Jerome and the blind people he met, who are already
working, is that he still has to gain the self-confidence and understanding
that he can find a job that he's interested in and still do it as well as
his sighted co-worker.

He met the blind roofer and, since his work history included construction,
that might be an area of interest for him. He now just needs the time and
education to realize that his blindness is not the end of work for him.
When he determines what he would like to do, and gains the understanding
that he can do the job now, just as well as he did it before, he'll
succeed. But, it's largely in the attitude toward his blindness and then
the determination to go out and get a job and do it.

Cindy Handel Willow Street, PA

**2. I guess I can understand how hard it would be to find out what you can do with all the things out there that you think you can't do . but I think you need
to look at the things you can do .

I have always been legally blind , I chose to be a machinist but about five years ago I was confronted with another problem .
In the length of about six months I had several retinal detachments witch left me with about 20x400 in my good eye and able to see almost nothing in my
other eye . I was devastated .
I was sure I would lose my job but after a few months of waiting for my eye to come back , and it didn't , I researched to see if there was a way I could
do it again .
I found a device called the JORDY , it's a head mounted CCTV and a few hand held magnifiers I was able to get my old job back .
I realize I am very lucky because my employer was good enough to give me a chance to see if I could still do my job . and after a little getting used to
doing things a new way things worked great . I just look at it as having a few more tools to use .
But at the same time it changed my attitude , now I look at it as my sight might go bad some day , I guess I'll just have to get some new training , In
the whole process I gained a interest in computers , I think I would be happy in that also .
I think you need to be able to make a living but it is very important to be happy in what you do .

My job consists of programming a computerized lathe , and making machine parts .
I have been doing it for about thirty years now and it's a good experience . there are some tough times , but I haven't came across anything I can't make sometimes you just need a little more determination than the average .

Bye for now

Mike Tatro central Minnesota

**3. This is going to be a short one for me. All if can say is that was a good approach that the person educating the person losing his vision used. Showing
him various types of jobs that newly blinded people have done. The only question left for me, was why not show jobs that blind people from birth have done.
Such as the traditional small business owner meaning vending stand owner, a person working in some sort of customer service job and people working in professions
such as counseling teaching and such. As for roofing, I would think you would have to have plenty of remaining vision for that type of job. God bless
you all

friend ship and peace Karen NFBtalk Mailing List

P. S. I also think he was pointing out that there is hope for gainful employment for newly blinded folks.

**4. I think the job that most interested me for the construction person you were describing was the roofer. Why? It is because that is construction. It is
probably a different line of construction but none-the-less, it is construction. I have met several people who went blind later in life then thought they could not stay in their field of expertise. The temptation is to go into something
else, even if it means going back to school. I think the temptation, for many, comes from the belief that they can't do what they had always done. I
encourage people to look at alternatives to perform in their chosen field, even if it is a little different slant on the same expertise. One of the saddest
things I can think of is for a person to go to school as part of a career change and not find a job after they have invested all of the time and effort
it takes to get an education. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe I am just sometimes wrong, but it seems to me that it would be easier to find work at something you already have some experience doing in some form than it would be to start over with blindness and a new career at the same time.

Nancy Coffman Lincoln, NE

**5. My name is Jonathan. I am a 29 year old.
I wanted to be a lawyer since I was in 7th grade. However, when I did my
internship, I realized how much paper work I would have to deal with and how
little time I would spend working with people.

I was devastated. I had no idea what I was going to do. I knew that I
enjoyed psychology when I was in high school and college as well as being a
great listener so I tried my hands in graduate school for counseling. After
getting my graduate degree, I looked for work. I found no jobs available
with my qualifications. I went back to earn my CAGS degree in counseling
psychology. As I do my internship, I am finding a lot of difficulty with no
mentor, no one to turn to for answers. However, I keep pushing, keep trying,
because although I have no idea what to do with all this paper work that is
not on a computer and I can not drive, it limits my employability.
I know I have to learn more about technology beyond the basics. I need a
scanner and other programs that will help me be more independent.
I have so many dreams that I want to accomplish in my life.
I want to make a difference in not only my client's life but in the human
service field whether it is as a counselor, a teacher or something that I
have not yet found.

I know that life is not easy but like 60 years ago from today, April 15th,
Jackie Robinson made a difference in the world, I know I will too.

Thank you

Jonathan Alpert NFB Human Service Workers Mailing List

**6. Jonathan,
I am blind and currently working full time for Tennessee's Department of
Transportation. The pay is decent, but it is not my passion. On the
weekends, I attend a grad program in Psychology/counseling. Naturally, I've
been thinking about what I want to do once I get out.

After gaining a little experience, I'm going to give my card out to all the
churches in the area. We are in the heart of the Bible belt here in
Nashville, and a lot of the churches contract out for counseling services.
Also, I'm networking with my class mates. I've found out that a lot of them
already work in the field. For example, one of my class mates just broke
out on her own, and is doing very well. Because she knows the competency of
our class, she has offered jobs to a few of us. By the way, did I mention
she's in the private sector, and the pay is good. So, look for
opportunities as close as your neighbor.

My final suggestion is, look for valid needs in the community, then, target
several community organizations that give out grants, and rite up a dynamite
grant proposal! I have one really good idea that I hope to get copy
written, and it is also a dynamic need in a section of our society.

I hope this may have given you some good ideas. Just remember, your
blindness is an asset, not a liability!

Grace and Peace,

JB NFB Human Service Workers Mailing List

**7. I've given this TP some thought. The considerations of employment choices are a bit tangled, it seems to me.
In the North American culture, it seems to me, people are defined and therefore define themselves by the occupation they inhabit and pursue. Not so in
other cultures where other things define a person: family, tradition, specific accomplishments. Added to this is the consideration, known to most of us,
that the sighted world mostly defines us as "blind" first, not viewing blindness as a characteristic but a defining quality of who we are. Then, there's
the connected reality that many people, not able to think beyond the imagined boundaries created by others, have not identified the opportunity to consider
possible employment opportunities beyond those outlined by someone else. Often these opportunities are limited to careers some would consider appropriate
for a blind person. The medical doctor, the jet engine mechanic, the astro-physicist - these are all jobs blind people can do, but likely seldom identified
by a career counselor, parent or teacher.
If a blind student or client is led to consider a job based on an avocation, a pure love for a particular kind of work, some of the limiting factors can
be eliminated.

I'll just give an example from my own rather limited experience. I used to love to study archaeology. I was strenuously discouraged from going into that
field. I had the terrific opportunity to go on a dig one time in northern Kentucky where a culture from about a thousand years ago had built villages
in the river valley. It was fun and I'm glad I had the experience. But by then I knew I probably wouldn't have been very good at the job. Yet, not long
ago we learned of a blind person who is a working archaeologist. Successful and renowned. I know I was discouraged based on my blindness. But, I also
was able, later on, to decide that archaeology, though fascinating, wasn't for me, not because I'm blind, but because there are other things I'd be better
at focusing energies and resources on.

All of this is meant to say, (less is more, no doubt), that I'm in hopes that blind people will, through being taught the wonderful concepts of self determination,
will choose jobs based on everything other than blindness first.

best,

KAT Guam

**8. It's great for blind people to work in different occupations. There are
plenty of jobs out there, but in my job search, I constantly come up against
a wall: A company's software isn't compatible with screen reader software.
We're supposed to have the ADA, but it seems that it isn't worth a damn.

Every one of us--whether ACB or NFB should camp on Tom Harkin's doorstep and ask him when software, as is building accessibility for wheelchairs, be
made to be accessible to blind persons so we won't have to settle for a
lesser job than we want. When both organizations do that and quit this
Mickey mouse arguing with each other, I'll consider joining one or the
other.

If I've injured some feelings, I'm delighted, if for no other reason than it
will get people off their butts and make something happen.

Stephen Barber ACB-L Mailing List

**9. You know what Steve? My response to "I'll join when the organizations stop arguing" is:
You will never join. So, why don't you join, get moving on the issues that are important to you and
ignore the "Mickey mouse" arguing just like I do? If you don't argue with them, they cannot argue
with you. However, if you're off your butt making things happen, things happen.
My point? A few days ago, an insurance website was not accessible. Today, it is. And I do, in
fact, mean a few days ago--as in one week ago. Why? Because I got pretty irate when one of the
main insurance places kept harassing me to get the credentialing application in and told them that
if their site were accessible, I would have had it in a long time ago, and that they are in
violation, blah blah. Well, they didn't know the difference between an accessible website and the
basement of my house, so I referred their web person to what the ACB site looks like and wala! that
was all he needed. Now, there site is accessible and my application is done.
No lawsuit. No "Mickey mouse" argument. Nothing. Just little ole Jessie, the ACB member.

A few other months ago, a pet food website wasn't accessible. I got the guy who didn't know the
difference between an accessible site and the basement of my house in contact with Earlene because
he had a couple of questions about it and it sure is now. Again, no lawsuit. No nothing other than
a mere getting people interested, educated, and making a direct connection with the right people who
could help them.
But you cannot do that if you don't join the organizations, get out there, get to know people, get
to know who knows, and needs what, . . . in other words, stop worrying about the "Mickey mouse arguing"
and get involved yourself.

Jessie ACB-L Mailing List

**10. This reminds me of the time when I was on my local Disability Advisory
Committee. We were working with city officials to use Community
Development grant money for audible traffic signals.

They wanted to know where blind people go so they could know where to put
the chirping signals.

Where do blind people go, and where do they work? Anywhere we want to.
Well, not quite, but that's the way it should be.

Abby Vincent ACB-L Mailing List

**11. I don't think the audible traffic signals should be put in places where
people work; rather, they should be put where traffic is busiest.

Jimmie Sue Castleberry ACB-L Mailing List

**12. I agree with this but also many blind folks don't get the chance to see
what is out there and to try different jobs. Many state councilors find the
most easy job or if computers are in that is what everybody should be doing.
A normal child growing up gets a chance to try different jobs as a
teenager
and to eliminate what the don't want to do before they leave college.
I also believe many folks think that if one blind person can do it they
should all be able to do the same at the same level or better. God has
given
us different gifts and different talents and for a blind person it is a
bit
more difficult to figure them out since there is far fewer opportunities.

Carl Jarvis ACB-L Mailing List

**13. Yes my biggest thing about where do blind people work is with my local commission for the blind, they know what blind people are doing and where they are
doing it, why don't they let us know what they are doing, so that way I am not disappointed once I go to school for what I really want to do and find out
that I can't get a job doing it.

Cheryl Echevarria, Long Island, NY

**14. I agree with this but also many blind folks don't get the chance to see what
is out there and to try different jobs. Many state councilors find the most
easy job or if computers are in that is what everybody should be doing.
A normal child growing up gets a chance to try different jobs as a teenager
and to eliminate what the don't want to do before they leave college.
I also believe many folks think that if one blind person can do it they
should all be able to do the same at the same level or better. God has given
us different gifts and different talents and for a blind person it is a bit
more difficult to figure them out since there is far fewer opportunities.

John Melia ACB-L Mailing List

**15. I agree with Jon and I would like to add that sighted teen-agers have a myriad of opportunities for summer jobs and baby-sitting. Blind kids aren't usually trusted to take care of the neighbors' kids and aren't usually even considered for summer employment at the local 7-11 or McDonald's, probably for good reason but it does limit our opportunities to get that early, youthful job experience.

Chris Coulter ACB-L Mailing List

**16. Very well stated, John, and we can't count on some of those industries
anymore. Sometimes, we urge clients one way or another--if they have
the skill set-to places we think will be more accommodating, but I
never did such because I wanted an easy closure.

I wish more programs existed to give young blind people the chance to
experience a variety of jobs; we can mentor older people, perhaps a
little more easily because they have worked.

The other problem I see a lot, is job placement specialists who don't
know anything and seldom call on the counselor or others, who could
help them assess jobs blind people can do more effectively; the VR
process should be a team approach with the consumer as captain and the
counselor as the coach, but a lot of people don't want to own their
stuff because then they can blame failure on the counselor rather than
taking on some of the responsibility themselves.

I am speaking from both sides here: I have been a recipient of VR
services in several states as well as a counselor in several states.

Darla Jean Rogers

**17. I happen to agree with that as well. As a blind person myself, and one
who is relatively young, I know how hard it is to find a decent job.
The assumption is usually that all of us can and should do the same
exact thing(s) regardless of situation. Unfortunately, finding job
coaches, etc who are aware of the different opportunities that may exist
in various cases is rather difficult. Fortunately for me, I have found
such a person. And finding jobs can be rather difficult as well, as has
been stated. It involves long periods of waiting for replies, and often
said replies turn out to be "We would love to have you working for us,
however we do not have an exact match for you at this time." It is
frustrating, but if one does end up with a job that one feels confident
in, then that period of time between starting the process and the start
of said job is well worth it!

Mark Driesenga

**17. I can think of very few jobs a blind person could not do, given reasonable accommodation, and like a sighted person must be, having been trained to do. You could not of course, drive a bus or cab, but you could do maintenance on the vehicles, be a dispatcher, etc. Most blind rehabilitation programs prepare
a blind person for employment by teaching new skills and accommodation to old ones. The VA has an exceptionally good rehab program, where rehab personnel
(some of them blind) work one on one with the client.

My favorite employment, of course, is self employment. Like a sighted person should do, pick what you like to do best, get yourself trained, if necessary,
and go for it! Many community colleges, etc., offer seminars or formal classes in small business management, and teach you how to get started. Most states
offer self employment through the Randolph-Sheppard Act, which is a federally funded program for blind people to operate feeding operations in federal
buildings, and states usually expand this to state buildings, etc. It is a wonderful program and funding is provided to get you started with inventory
and training and any blind person suffering from un-employment should contact his state services for the visually impaired and inquire about this program. I have known vending machine operators who earned as much as $75,000 annually in this program. Bottom line is: Blindness should not stop you from pursuing work that you would enjoy doing. You can do it if you want to badly enough!

Jim Theall Longmont, Colorado

**19. The only limitations we have are those we put on ourselves. With some blindness skills training and new-found confidence, there is no reason why Jerome
cannot continue to work in construction if he wishes to

Jamison New Mexico Technology Instructor

**20. I think that the people were trying to tell him that he can do anything he wants to as long as he puts his mind to it and doesn't take know you can't do
it for an answer.

Rania

**21. The story really says it all. A lady in our NFB chapter is a cosmetologist--not many blind people in that field so am proud of her. She is going back
to school and will eventually get her Masters in another career, but has a wonderful skill that will stand her in good stead. So where do the blind work?--Everywhere and anywhere. We're not yet pilots, taxi-drivers or in the military, but in hundreds of support services. By the way, anyone out there, please correct me if I'm wrong about the above supposed limitations!

Judy Jones

**22. Not only should we ask the question where do blind people work, but where do they play, socialize, or anything. The focus should not be only on where do they work because we are like other people in that we do all kinds of things other than work.

Jimmie Sue ACB-L Mailing List

**23. Dear Jimmie sue, I agree, but remember, if we aren't working, our recreations can be quite limited, too, as some recreational activities do cost money.

Darla

**24. I think it showed that these people went after what they truly enjoyed and felt confident doing, and didn't let their blindness be a hindrance. It goes to show that with proper training, use of general and alternative techniques and given the opportunity to contribute to society, they could do the jobs they really wanted and didn't feel like they were settling for something less

.

Kori King

**25. Jimmie Sue, I couldn't agree with you more. Blind people live lives that are very similar to sighted people including fun and recreation. I suppose that wasn't always the case, though. In the bad old days the passive, dependent blind didn't really work or play unless they were guided and otherwise assisted by sighted relatives. Blind people in that situation were, in effect invisible.
Now, as we become more independent we are going through a transition and it is my opinion that we ourselves need to do the job of making ourselves more visible to the rest of the world. This seems to have been the theme of the most recent posts on this list under several different subject lines.

Chris Coulter ACB-L Mailing List

**26. Yes where blind people play is important. In fact good social skills and socializing skills have nearly as much to do with job skills when it comes to employment. This is so because on the job we often run in to social situations. In nearly all jobsituations we come in contact with all kinds of people and we have to be able to relate to them so yes social skills are very important.

Phil Jones ACB-L Mailing List

**27. Regarding where we play... We are affecting people's perceptions of us regardless whether it is where we work or where we play. I, for instance, love to fish, and I also love to go fishing with my friends and with other people because I am still teaching, still educating!! Yes, they are amazed at how I can select my hooks without getting stuck by one, how I know which lure is which, how I tie my lines, how I unravel my line when it gets into a tangled mess, how I cast my line where I want it to go, how I can tell what kind of fish I have caught, and how I can take catfish off my line without getting finned by their sharp fins!! For us, it is all in a day's work, as the expression goes, but we should take pride in our roles as educators and feel a since of pity for those who are so ignorant, for it is they who really are handicapped, not us!! smile

Ron E. Milliman ACB-L Mailing List

**28. I must admit, this one kind of stumped me, for several reasons: 1) There are not a lot of blind people in Rhode Island, so I have little information to go on. 2) Even if there were any, there aren't a lot of job opportunities for ANYONE, never mind the blind! (Unless you can figure out a way to be a blind blackjack dealer, forget it! These bozos in the General Assembly don't want real jobs, just casinos!) and 3) The trend in society is that there is little or no "mentoring." That is, children and young adults don't have a CLUE of what to do, how to do it, or why. You yourself said so, Mr. Newman, that your parents had no idea what to do when you lost your vision. But this is true of sighted and blind alike: people are kept busy with "activities," but are given no practical wisdom! Here's something you can start with: Don't worry about "CAN'T." Concentrate on "CAN." Assuming you still have hearing, touch and mobility, then do the kind of work that can be done with that. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ABILITY; and straightway took his journey. For example, I recently read a true story, about an auto mechanic who lost his sight, but kept his job. He realized that a car's engine is crammed into a tiny compartment, and that most of the time, the part you're fixing is out of sight anyway, so what difference did it make? (Have you ever tried to turn a screw inside a little hole? At an angle? Sighted or not, you still have to go by touch!) I heard of another case where a guy used to be a computer graphics designer. After he lost his vision, he couldn't do that job. But, because he could still walk, hear and think, he went back to school and became a lawyer.

Several years ago, I began writing stories featuring a blind woman. I asked myself, "What would she do for a living?" I decided to make her a language teacher. Logically, this would be a perfect job for her. After all, you don't really need vision to teach language. You're supposed to teach language by phonics (sounds and their interpretations). She can hear and speak, so why not? Now think about this. When a person learns to type, they are trained to look at the computer screen, not the keyboard. You simply memorize it. You know how it goes: A S D F J K L ;. Of course, this means that a blind person must be TAUGHT something, and must practice it. Just going to camps, rock climbing and "beep baseball" doesn't
accomplish very much.

David Lafleche

**29. That is all well and good but my problems are that when I met with my counselors they never evaluated menor told me about opportunities, since I don't know about these offers and vending operations, etc. I mean before I went blind I was in the clerical field for at least 20 years, I have the experience I just need the training to adapt to get back into the workforce and my Vocational Counselors are not doing what they are paid to do, and for that I feel our state agencies don't do there jobs properly so we can get out there and do our jobs. sorry I have a bad taste in my mouth from CMVH here in NY. And to answer the question that people are thinking, I have called my local CAP and you know what after three times of calling them and people just taking down my name and number no one has gotten back to me either.

Cheryl Echevarria Brentwood, NY

30. I strongly identify with Jerome, as I was the only blind person in my seven years of college and around my neighborhood. I was like Jerome once, unsure, unable to overcome my disability. Now, however, because I wouldn't quit and had great role models, I'm moving along toward my goal. Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Ann Chiappetta, M.S New Rochelle, NY

**31. I frequently discuss the fact that there is an 80 percent unemployment rate among the blind with other blind friends. One friend feels that we have not
made as much progress as other disabled people. We are still shoved aside and discriminated against. I have been discriminated against in trying to get
a job as a medical transcriptionist. The personnel manager said I have to read the doctors' handwriting on the job. That is a very unfair requirement,
as far as I was concerned. I asked her if the major hospital used dictaphones. "No, we do not use dictaphones here." she said, back in August, 1990.

Years later, I was told by someone else that I was lied to on purpose. I wasted time training for medical transcribing only to find the job is no longer
available. Now, it is completely automated. I am no longer interested. What really got to me was my last apartment in Nevada was right next door to
the hospital where I was denied employment. I could have had it made: There would have been no problem getting to and from work, but by the time I lived
next door to that hospital, it no longer mattered. The only way I can experience the field of medicine much of the time is by reading medical thrillers. My spelling and typing skills are excellent, but it doesn't matter; it is no longer in demand. And most of the time, Rehab services for the blind trains
you for jobs that are not there for you, or is outdated, then they shove you into a sheltered workshop slot, a human robot for piecework, which has never
charmed me. I never wanted to work in such appalling conditions and wasted one month in a program just so I could pay part of my medical bills, then when
I was let go, I was glad, because I hated packing nuts and bolts in boxes. I have not worked since. The only time I had a job that counted was back in
1994 when I did telephone work for the Multiple Sclerosis Society. I worked from home. I gave up the job because my second sighted husband did not want
to live close enough to the office so I could deliver the worksheets each week. As a result, I was never able to find another job like that. I only had
it for two months. I am sorry I gave up that job because it could have led to something else, and if I did not marry, I could have left Nevada much sooner
than I did, etc. A job is only something many of us unemployed can only dream of. The only way a blind person can get a job without the hangups people
have towards us is if you are working in a family business and a family member hires you as receptionist or phone answerer or something simple like that.

They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but what about a blind person's mind? Why can't we say the same thing about that? While sighted folks are
wasting their minds by using drugs and stealing from family members to support their habits, what about us blind folks? Are we to sit on the sidelines
all our lives listening to talking books and popping Paxil because of people being ignorant about our abilities? If only the taqxpayers could know the
truth about how time is wasted training blind folks for nonexistent jobs and how Rehab can string you along for years and years until you eventually give
up and the case is closed when the counselor is retired suddenly or let go by the agency. Those who have jobs don't tell us how they did it and guard
their secrets jealously because they don't want the rest of us to force them off the job. I don't trust Rehab anymore. I have been disapointed too many
times.

I think Rehab counselor is such a misnomer. Why not call them career guidance counselors? I think the system should be overhauled or scrapped and a whole
new program developed. We should do what they did to those on welfare: Workfare for the blind: You work for what you get on SSI instead of staying home
to get it. If you don't fill the bill, guess what? You're fired. Instead of putting us to work packing nuts and bolts with retarded sighties, let's
find something more useful than that: If you can type better than a sighted person, you type. If you can wash dishes better than a sighted person can,
you wash dishes. Am I being too radical?

Mimi

**32. This is exactly what the NFB does with a newly blinded person. I would not wish the loss of vision on my worst enemy, but I have two best friends who have dealt with it. I'm glad that Jerome found these worker types around Samuel. I would leave roofing and construction to them, but since he did it before he got shot, it was good to see him meet them.

Ben Bloomgren

**33. I don't know what others think, but I think it is even more difficult to locate a job because it is more difficult for people who are not blind, and I know a goodly number of people who were hired by large companies and got downsized. Some have gone very successfully into other jobs; while others have not fared to well.

I'd like to see blind people trained with good skill sets that would be useful in a number of jobs, but still, even with good computer and access technology skills, a job can frustrate the heck out of you because the software a company uses was not conceived with blind people in mind, and the original developers are often not consistent in how material is presented which makes it very difficult for JAWS script writers to make it work bug-free, and Windoweyes, as far as I know, doesn't do much better because I don't believe Set files would work well either, if the original software developers don't maintain consistency. The other skill sets would involve good research skills; good presentation; help with image issues, etc.

Darla Rogers ACB-L Mailing List

**34. This TP couldn't've come at a better time. I am once again in the midst of a VR dilemma. I will explain. I had been without a counselor for a little
while, because Counselor Number Umpteen and One had, as my mom and I eventually found out, been transferred to a different office. Mind you that counselor
never even bothered to say anything at all about being transferred, and nobody else did either until late. I was quite honestly so fed up with the fact
that I hadn't made any real progress with any of my counselors, that I had my case closed. That last counselor had in fact suggested to me that I have
my case closed awhile back since I hadn't been able to find a job, but I honestly didn't think much of it at the time and decided to give him another shot
before actually closing my case. However, this is not what my parents wanted so when the newest counselor came along, they had my case reopened once again.
To make a long story short, my counselor wants me to have a second vocational evaluation. He also wants me to go through a rehab-training program which
I went through several years back. I'm still waiting to hear back from someone at the rehab facility, because I want to ask her some in-depth questions
about the program as it is now. A sister of mine recently went through said rehab-training program and got very little out of it. I'm not just basing my
reasoning for not wanting to do this on my sister, but that program is one which has a one-size-fits-all philosophy. Last time I was there, which was around
1997 or so, the technology was rather outdated and part of the facility was totally unusable. Also, they made me take Braille which, although I abided
by their request, I found to be a total waste of time because I had already known Braille from having learned it as a child. One other aspect of this program
which I don't like is that they make you carry a full tray. For some it is easy to carry a tray with a plate of hot food, a drink which is most likely
filled to the brim with one of those flimsy tops that isn't likely to fit anyway, all that while using a cane or a guide dog to know where the person is
going. More power to those people. Granted I've always been a cane user and don't know what it is necessarily like doing all this with guide dog in hand.
But that is just plain dangerous. All explanations aside, I do not want to go through this program again, or have another vocational evaluation, simply
because they are and have been a big waste of time. The other participants, particularly in the vocational evaluation, were at a much lower skill level
than I was and I didn't learn much of anything in the way of job skills. I was never taught what all to expect in a job interview. Sure I know that an
employee, or even a potential employee, must be punctual and must have the desire to work. I for one certainly do have the desire to work but just haven't
been given the opportunity. Sure, I might meet some people down there, and that's great! Who knows, one or more of them could have the same eye disease
I do. But meeting people and socializing is not really the whole point. I can socialize here where I live, while at the same time working with a qualified
job coach. Most if not all the other program participants last time were only blind but for most of them, partial or total lack of sight came later in
life. The majority of them struggled greatly with their blindness, and I guess I just felt very out of place because I have never really struggled with
my blindness. I was born blind, and there was never a time when I felt bad or depressed about it. I'm not trying to be insensitive to those who do get
depressed about their vision loss, but I guess I just didn't have much in common with these people.

What does all this have to do with the topic at hand, i.e., where do the blind work? Well I think it has a lot to do with this topic. It is just a simple
fact of life that one size does not fit all. Nor will it ever fit all. We all learn things differently, and not everyone is going to be extremely extremely
gifted and talented at everything and all that. That's why the system as we know it is completely broken and out of sync. The system, or the better part
of it, only focuses on the extremely gifted person who can function at an extremely high level. The other thing is that even with all the proper training,
everyone makes mistakes. Yes, even we "the blind," who according to some are supposed to be perfectionists, do make mistakes. One of us could be having
a rotten day, or one of us could possibly have other disabilities in addition to our visual impairment. Wow what a concept! In addition, those of us who
happen to not fit the mold of how a blind person should be, are not told everything we need to know in order to make informed decisions about our future.
This includes employment. There are tons of jobs blind people do, but if the VR counselors would stop running our meetings for us I think there'd be a
much greater chance of things going smoothly for us clients. Heck, some visually-impaired people even work as VR counselors or rehab instructors. I was
once asked by a member of my state VR agency if I'd like to work there, but nobody ever did get back with me on that one. I think I could do great things
for my state agency if I worked in VR. In addition, communication needs to be drastically improved. For instance, clients need to be properly notified
of any changes in our cases, including new counselors. Also, client material needs to be dispersed in an accessible medium, i.e., one which the client
can read independently. This brings up a question. Do clients' files, or are they supposed to, get transferred along with the clients? What I mean by this
is when a client gets a new counselor, is that client's file supposed to be automatically taken over by the new counselor, or does everything just start
from scratch with each new counselor? With each succeeding counselor I had, it seemed as though they all wanted to totally reinvent the wheel. Also, what
exactly is included in a client's file besides contact information and past work history if any? I know I'm being rather blunt here, but the reality of
it is that the system needs a major overhaul and there needs to be some way of leveling the playing field. Either that or VR needs to be scrapped altogether.

Jake Joehl Evanston, Illinois

**35. The question in the narrative was as follows: "What were they stressing as the deep-down reasons that lead them to where they are at today?" My answer to the afore question is: "I can do it." Whether you are sighted, blind, or have some other kind of disability or illness, you have to put in your mind that nothing is going to stop you and that you can do it. It's when you say that there's absolutely no way or that "I cannot", that's when you'll have the obstacles you have put in front of yourself to contend with. You will also have difficulty overcoming the obstacles people also put in front of you. Just because the former construction worker is now blind does not mean that he has to abandon construction work altogether. There may be some things he cannot do anymore, but there's still plenty of work he can do--drilling things, cutting things with different kinds of saws, nailing things, patching things, etc. I'm not an expert on construction, but I know enough to do basic construction work around the house. What I have learned from personal experience is that much of construction is by sight and feel, combined. For example, when you are patching a wall, you can tell what needs to be patched and whether or not it's flat or bumpy. When you are nailing something together, you can also tell whether it is straight or crooked. Some of those minor things cannot be seen by the naked eye but can be detected by feel.

Linda USA

THOUGHT PROVOKER 120

Where Do The Blind Work

"Where do the blind work?" Jerome asked. He was fairly new with his blindness, a guy recovering from a recent head injury, a result of a gunshot wound. He was legally blind, his corrected visual acuity close to, but less than twenty over two hundred. "Back when I was working construction, I might have seen a few people with white canes like mine, walking along the streets, but I don't know where they were going or if they worked. An I'm sure I missed seeing a lot of guys like me that had poor sight, you know, maybe had real thick glasses and didn't use a cane. And I know I didn't go to school with any and I didn't work with any either. But I gotta figure out what I can do now."

"So Jerome, what I'm going to try and do here is to make you rethink and restate your question. I mean, yeah! I can sit here and rattle off a dozen or a dozen dozens of jobs that blind folks are doing. And maybe that's a good start. However, I know I'm only going to be able to as they say, touch on the tip of the iceberg. Like for every job I mention, there will be a dozen I miss. And more importantly, I'm sure there are dozens of other dozens of jobs out there that presently do not have blind guys in them, but are just waiting for some one like you or me to step up and be the first."

"What do'ya mean?"

"Well…follow me." Jerome and I had just finished meeting at a downtown coffee shop, it had been his assignment to find it on his own. "you are in luck. Within walking distance, I'm going to introduce you to a third of a dozen employed blind people and their blindness is similar to yours."

"Samuel, welcome! Who do you have there with you?" The warm, friendly voice of the receptionist said to us as we walked in.

"Rita, howdy.. I'd like you to meet Jerome." Turning to my companion, "This is one of the employed blind person's I want you to meet."

Later at the conclusion of our whirlwind tour. "so let's review what you learned."

"Well, first I met the receptionist. She greets people, answers the phone, types documents on the computer, scans old documents, prepares the mail and a bunch of other stuff."

"Okay, what lead her to that type of job?"

"She said she likes helping people, likes organizing stuff, likes to multi task."

"How about the next guy, the computer programmer?"

"Well, he ah, likes creating stuff, likes to work alone and…he talked about this was his best skill-set."

"Okay, the auto mechanic and how did he get into it?"

"He's always been into cars, did mechanic work before his eyes went bad and still likes it. And ah, people really doubted he could still do it and ah, he was stubborn, wouldn't say quit."

"Okay, how about the Roofer?"

"Woo, that guy blew me away. I used to roof and doing it now..." His voice fell away in thought.

"Stop there. What did he say he had to do for himself in order to get into it?"

"Yeah…ah, alternatives and confidence."

"Yeah." I said with a "that's right" tone. "think about what these people were saying. What were they stressing as the deep-down reasons that lead them to where they are at today?"

RESPONSES

e-mail responses to newmanrl@cox.net

**1. I think Jerome was very courageous to ask the question, "Where do the blind
work?" It's something that many people don't ask.

Here in Lancaster, Pa., the local Association for the Blind is very well
known and it's assumed that, if you're blind or visually impaired, that's
where you work. People also assume that they take us to doctor
appointments, shopping, and just about anywhere else we need to go.

So, rather than assuming, Jerome asked the question. He's newly blinded and
has the same ideas about blindness that most sighted people have. Now, it's
time for him to learn all over again.

The difference between Jerome and the blind people he met, who are already
working, is that he still has to gain the self-confidence and understanding
that he can find a job that he's interested in and still do it as well as
his sighted co-worker.

He met the blind roofer and, since his work history included construction,
that might be an area of interest for him. He now just needs the time and
education to realize that his blindness is not the end of work for him.
When he determines what he would like to do, and gains the understanding
that he can do the job now, just as well as he did it before, he'll
succeed. But, it's largely in the attitude toward his blindness and then
the determination to go out and get a job and do it.

Cindy Handel Willow Street, PA

**2. I guess I can understand how hard it would be to find out what you can do with all the things out there that you think you can't do . but I think you need
to look at the things you can do .

I have always been legally blind , I chose to be a machinist but about five years ago I was confronted with another problem .
In the length of about six months I had several retinal detachments witch left me with about 20x400 in my good eye and able to see almost nothing in my
other eye . I was devastated .
I was sure I would lose my job but after a few months of waiting for my eye to come back , and it didn't , I researched to see if there was a way I could
do it again .
I found a device called the JORDY , it's a head mounted CCTV and a few hand held magnifiers I was able to get my old job back .
I realize I am very lucky because my employer was good enough to give me a chance to see if I could still do my job . and after a little getting used to
doing things a new way things worked great . I just look at it as having a few more tools to use .
But at the same time it changed my attitude , now I look at it as my sight might go bad some day , I guess I'll just have to get some new training , In
the whole process I gained a interest in computers , I think I would be happy in that also .
I think you need to be able to make a living but it is very important to be happy in what you do .

My job consists of programming a computerized lathe , and making machine parts .
I have been doing it for about thirty years now and it's a good experience . there are some tough times , but I haven't came across anything I can't make sometimes you just need a little more determination than the average .

Bye for now

Mike Tatro central Minnesota

**3. This is going to be a short one for me. All if can say is that was a good approach that the person educating the person losing his vision used. Showing
him various types of jobs that newly blinded people have done. The only question left for me, was why not show jobs that blind people from birth have done.
Such as the traditional small business owner meaning vending stand owner, a person working in some sort of customer service job and people working in professions
such as counseling teaching and such. As for roofing, I would think you would have to have plenty of remaining vision for that type of job. God bless
you all

friend ship and peace Karen NFBtalk Mailing List

P. S. I also think he was pointing out that there is hope for gainful employment for newly blinded folks.

**4. I think the job that most interested me for the construction person you were describing was the roofer. Why? It is because that is construction. It is
probably a different line of construction but none-the-less, it is construction. I have met several people who went blind later in life then thought they could not stay in their field of expertise. The temptation is to go into something
else, even if it means going back to school. I think the temptation, for many, comes from the belief that they can't do what they had always done. I
encourage people to look at alternatives to perform in their chosen field, even if it is a little different slant on the same expertise. One of the saddest
things I can think of is for a person to go to school as part of a career change and not find a job after they have invested all of the time and effort
it takes to get an education. Maybe I am wrong, and maybe I am just sometimes wrong, but it seems to me that it would be easier to find work at something you already have some experience doing in some form than it would be to start over with blindness and a new career at the same time.

Nancy Coffman Lincoln, NE

**5. My name is Jonathan. I am a 29 year old.
I wanted to be a lawyer since I was in 7th grade. However, when I did my
internship, I realized how much paper work I would have to deal with and how
little time I would spend working with people.

I was devastated. I had no idea what I was going to do. I knew that I
enjoyed psychology when I was in high school and college as well as being a
great listener so I tried my hands in graduate school for counseling. After
getting my graduate degree, I looked for work. I found no jobs available
with my qualifications. I went back to earn my CAGS degree in counseling
psychology. As I do my internship, I am finding a lot of difficulty with no
mentor, no one to turn to for answers. However, I keep pushing, keep trying,
because although I have no idea what to do with all this paper work that is
not on a computer and I can not drive, it limits my employability.
I know I have to learn more about technology beyond the basics. I need a
scanner and other programs that will help me be more independent.
I have so many dreams that I want to accomplish in my life.
I want to make a difference in not only my client's life but in the human
service field whether it is as a counselor, a teacher or something that I
have not yet found.

I know that life is not easy but like 60 years ago from today, April 15th,
Jackie Robinson made a difference in the world, I know I will too.

Thank you

Jonathan Alpert NFB Human Service Workers Mailing List

**6. Jonathan,
I am blind and currently working full time for Tennessee's Department of
Transportation. The pay is decent, but it is not my passion. On the
weekends, I attend a grad program in Psychology/counseling. Naturally, I've
been thinking about what I want to do once I get out.

After gaining a little experience, I'm going to give my card out to all the
churches in the area. We are in the heart of the Bible belt here in
Nashville, and a lot of the churches contract out for counseling services.
Also, I'm networking with my class mates. I've found out that a lot of them
already work in the field. For example, one of my class mates just broke
out on her own, and is doing very well. Because she knows the competency of
our class, she has offered jobs to a few of us. By the way, did I mention
she's in the private sector, and the pay is good. So, look for
opportunities as close as your neighbor.

My final suggestion is, look for valid needs in the community, then, target
several community organizations that give out grants, and rite up a dynamite
grant proposal! I have one really good idea that I hope to get copy
written, and it is also a dynamic need in a section of our society.

I hope this may have given you some good ideas. Just remember, your
blindness is an asset, not a liability!

Grace and Peace,

JB NFB Human Service Workers Mailing List

**7. I've given this TP some thought. The considerations of employment choices are a bit tangled, it seems to me.
In the North American culture, it seems to me, people are defined and therefore define themselves by the occupation they inhabit and pursue. Not so in
other cultures where other things define a person: family, tradition, specific accomplishments. Added to this is the consideration, known to most of us,
that the sighted world mostly defines us as "blind" first, not viewing blindness as a characteristic but a defining quality of who we are. Then, there's
the connected reality that many people, not able to think beyond the imagined boundaries created by others, have not identified the opportunity to consider
possible employment opportunities beyond those outlined by someone else. Often these opportunities are limited to careers some would consider appropriate
for a blind person. The medical doctor, the jet engine mechanic, the astro-physicist - these are all jobs blind people can do, but likely seldom identified
by a career counselor, parent or teacher.
If a blind student or client is led to consider a job based on an avocation, a pure love for a particular kind of work, some of the limiting factors can
be eliminated.

I'll just give an example from my own rather limited experience. I used to love to study archaeology. I was strenuously discouraged from going into that
field. I had the terrific opportunity to go on a dig one time in northern Kentucky where a culture from about a thousand years ago had built villages
in the river valley. It was fun and I'm glad I had the experience. But by then I knew I probably wouldn't have been very good at the job. Yet, not long
ago we learned of a blind person who is a working archaeologist. Successful and renowned. I know I was discouraged based on my blindness. But, I also
was able, later on, to decide that archaeology, though fascinating, wasn't for me, not because I'm blind, but because there are other things I'd be better
at focusing energies and resources on.

All of this is meant to say, (less is more, no doubt), that I'm in hopes that blind people will, through being taught the wonderful concepts of self determination,
will choose jobs based on everything other than blindness first.

best,

KAT Guam

**8. It's great for blind people to work in different occupations. There are
plenty of jobs out there, but in my job search, I constantly come up against
a wall: A company's software isn't compatible with screen reader software.
We're supposed to have the ADA, but it seems that it isn't worth a damn.

Every one of us--whether ACB or NFB should camp on Tom Harkin's doorstep and ask him when software, as is building accessibility for wheelchairs, be
made to be accessible to blind persons so we won't have to settle for a
lesser job than we want. When both organizations do that and quit this
Mickey mouse arguing with each other, I'll consider joining one or the
other.

If I've injured some feelings, I'm delighted, if for no other reason than it
will get people off their butts and make something happen.

Stephen Barber ACB-L Mailing List

**9. You know what Steve? My response to "I'll join when the organizations stop arguing" is:
You will never join. So, why don't you join, get moving on the issues that are important to you and
ignore the "Mickey mouse" arguing just like I do? If you don't argue with them, they cannot argue
with you. However, if you're off your butt making things happen, things happen.
My point? A few days ago, an insurance website was not accessible. Today, it is. And I do, in
fact, mean a few days ago--as in one week ago. Why? Because I got pretty irate when one of the
main insurance places kept harassing me to get the credentialing application in and told them that
if their site were accessible, I would have had it in a long time ago, and that they are in
violation, blah blah. Well, they didn't know the difference between an accessible website and the
basement of my house, so I referred their web person to what the ACB site looks like and wala! that
was all he needed. Now, there site is accessible and my application is done.
No lawsuit. No "Mickey mouse" argument. Nothing. Just little ole Jessie, the ACB member.

A few other months ago, a pet food website wasn't accessible. I got the guy who didn't know the
difference between an accessible site and the basement of my house in contact with Earlene because
he had a couple of questions about it and it sure is now. Again, no lawsuit. No nothing other than
a mere getting people interested, educated, and making a direct connection with the right people who
could help them.
But you cannot do that if you don't join the organizations, get out there, get to know people, get
to know who knows, and needs what, . . . in other words, stop worrying about the "Mickey mouse arguing"
and get involved yourself.

Jessie ACB-L Mailing List

**10. This reminds me of the time when I was on my local Disability Advisory
Committee. We were working with city officials to use Community
Development grant money for audible traffic signals.

They wanted to know where blind people go so they could know where to put
the chirping signals.

Where do blind people go, and where do they work? Anywhere we want to.
Well, not quite, but that's the way it should be.

Abby Vincent ACB-L Mailing List

**11. I don't think the audible traffic signals should be put in places where
people work; rather, they should be put where traffic is busiest.

Jimmie Sue Castleberry ACB-L Mailing List

**12. I agree with this but also many blind folks don't get the chance to see
what is out there and to try different jobs. Many state councilors find the
most easy job or if computers are in that is what everybody should be doing.
A normal child growing up gets a chance to try different jobs as a
teenager
and to eliminate what the don't want to do before they leave college.
I also believe many folks think that if one blind person can do it they
should all be able to do the same at the same level or better. God has
given
us different gifts and different talents and for a blind person it is a
bit
more difficult to figure them out since there is far fewer opportunities.

Carl Jarvis ACB-L Mailing List

**13. Yes my biggest thing about where do blind people work is with my local commission for the blind, they know what blind people are doing and where they are
doing it, why don't they let us know what they are doing, so that way I am not disappointed once I go to school for what I really want to do and find out
that I can't get a job doing it.

Cheryl Echevarria, Long Island, NY

**14. I agree with this but also many blind folks don't get the chance to see what
is out there and to try different jobs. Many state councilors find the most
easy job or if computers are in that is what everybody should be doing.
A normal child growing up gets a chance to try different jobs as a teenager
and to eliminate what the don't want to do before they leave college.
I also believe many folks think that if one blind person can do it they
should all be able to do the same at the same level or better. God has given
us different gifts and different talents and for a blind person it is a bit
more difficult to figure them out since there is far fewer opportunities.

John Melia ACB-L Mailing List

**15. I agree with Jon and I would like to add that sighted teen-agers have a myriad of opportunities for summer jobs and baby-sitting. Blind kids aren't usually trusted to take care of the neighbors' kids and aren't usually even considered for summer employment at the local 7-11 or McDonald's, probably for good reason but it does limit our opportunities to get that early, youthful job experience.

Chris Coulter ACB-L Mailing List

**16. Very well stated, John, and we can't count on some of those industries
anymore. Sometimes, we urge clients one way or another--if they have
the skill set-to places we think will be more accommodating, but I
never did such because I wanted an easy closure.

I wish more programs existed to give young blind people the chance to
experience a variety of jobs; we can mentor older people, perhaps a
little more easily because they have worked.

The other problem I see a lot, is job placement specialists who don't
know anything and seldom call on the counselor or others, who could
help them assess jobs blind people can do more effectively; the VR
process should be a team approach with the consumer as captain and the
counselor as the coach, but a lot of people don't want to own their
stuff because then they can blame failure on the counselor rather than
taking on some of the responsibility themselves.

I am speaking from both sides here: I have been a recipient of VR
services in several states as well as a counselor in several states.

Darla Jean Rogers

**17. I happen to agree with that as well. As a blind person myself, and one
who is relatively young, I know how hard it is to find a decent job.
The assumption is usually that all of us can and should do the same
exact thing(s) regardless of situation. Unfortunately, finding job
coaches, etc who are aware of the different opportunities that may exist
in various cases is rather difficult. Fortunately for me, I have found
such a person. And finding jobs can be rather difficult as well, as has
been stated. It involves long periods of waiting for replies, and often
said replies turn out to be "We would love to have you working for us,
however we do not have an exact match for you at this time." It is
frustrating, but if one does end up with a job that one feels confident
in, then that period of time between starting the process and the start
of said job is well worth it!

Mark Driesenga

**17. I can think of very few jobs a blind person could not do, given reasonable accommodation, and like a sighted person must be, having been trained to do. You could not of course, drive a bus or cab, but you could do maintenance on the vehicles, be a dispatcher, etc. Most blind rehabilitation programs prepare
a blind person for employment by teaching new skills and accommodation to old ones. The VA has an exceptionally good rehab program, where rehab personnel
(some of them blind) work one on one with the client.

My favorite employment, of course, is self employment. Like a sighted person should do, pick what you like to do best, get yourself trained, if necessary,
and go for it! Many community colleges, etc., offer seminars or formal classes in small business management, and teach you how to get started. Most states
offer self employment through the Randolph-Sheppard Act, which is a federally funded program for blind people to operate feeding operations in federal
buildings, and states usually expand this to state buildings, etc. It is a wonderful program and funding is provided to get you started with inventory
and training and any blind person suffering from un-employment should contact his state services for the visually impaired and inquire about this program. I have known vending machine operators who earned as much as $75,000 annually in this program. Bottom line is: Blindness should not stop you from pursuing work that you would enjoy doing. You can do it if you want to badly enough!

Jim Theall Longmont, Colorado

**19. The only limitations we have are those we put on ourselves. With some blindness skills training and new-found confidence, there is no reason why Jerome
cannot continue to work in construction if he wishes to

Jamison New Mexico Technology Instructor

**20. I think that the people were trying to tell him that he can do anything he wants to as long as he puts his mind to it and doesn't take know you can't do
it for an answer.

Rania

**21. The story really says it all. A lady in our NFB chapter is a cosmetologist--not many blind people in that field so am proud of her. She is going back
to school and will eventually get her Masters in another career, but has a wonderful skill that will stand her in good stead. So where do the blind work?--Everywhere and anywhere. We're not yet pilots, taxi-drivers or in the military, but in hundreds of support services. By the way, anyone out there, please correct me if I'm wrong about the above supposed limitations!

Judy Jones

**22. Not only should we ask the question where do blind people work, but where do they play, socialize, or anything. The focus should not be only on where do they work because we are like other people in that we do all kinds of things other than work.

Jimmie Sue ACB-L Mailing List

**23. Dear Jimmie sue, I agree, but remember, if we aren't working, our recreations can be quite limited, too, as some recreational activities do cost money.

Darla

**24. I think it showed that these people went after what they truly enjoyed and felt confident doing, and didn't let their blindness be a hindrance. It goes to show that with proper training, use of general and alternative techniques and given the opportunity to contribute to society, they could do the jobs they really wanted and didn't feel like they were settling for something less

.

Kori King

**25. Jimmie Sue, I couldn't agree with you more. Blind people live lives that are very similar to sighted people including fun and recreation. I suppose that wasn't always the case, though. In the bad old days the passive, dependent blind didn't really work or play unless they were guided and otherwise assisted by sighted relatives. Blind people in that situation were, in effect invisible.
Now, as we become more independent we are going through a transition and it is my opinion that we ourselves need to do the job of making ourselves more visible to the rest of the world. This seems to have been the theme of the most recent posts on this list under several different subject lines.

Chris Coulter ACB-L Mailing List

**26. Yes where blind people play is important. In fact good social skills and socializing skills have nearly as much to do with job skills when it comes to employment. This is so because on the job we often run in to social situations. In nearly all jobsituations we come in contact with all kinds of people and we have to be able to relate to them so yes social skills are very important.

Phil Jones ACB-L Mailing List

**27. Regarding where we play... We are affecting people's perceptions of us regardless whether it is where we work or where we play. I, for instance, love to fish, and I also love to go fishing with my friends and with other people because I am still teaching, still educating!! Yes, they are amazed at how I can select my hooks without getting stuck by one, how I know which lure is which, how I tie my lines, how I unravel my line when it gets into a tangled mess, how I cast my line where I want it to go, how I can tell what kind of fish I have caught, and how I can take catfish off my line without getting finned by their sharp fins!! For us, it is all in a day's work, as the expression goes, but we should take pride in our roles as educators and feel a since of pity for those who are so ignorant, for it is they who really are handicapped, not us!! smile

Ron E. Milliman ACB-L Mailing List

**28. I must admit, this one kind of stumped me, for several reasons: 1) There are not a lot of blind people in Rhode Island, so I have little information to go on. 2) Even if there were any, there aren't a lot of job opportunities for ANYONE, never mind the blind! (Unless you can figure out a way to be a blind blackjack dealer, forget it! These bozos in the General Assembly don't want real jobs, just casinos!) and 3) The trend in society is that there is little or no "mentoring." That is, children and young adults don't have a CLUE of what to do, how to do it, or why. You yourself said so, Mr. Newman, that your parents had no idea what to do when you lost your vision. But this is true of sighted and blind alike: people are kept busy with "activities," but are given no practical wisdom! Here's something you can start with: Don't worry about "CAN'T." Concentrate on "CAN." Assuming you still have hearing, touch and mobility, then do the kind of work that can be done with that. And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ABILITY; and straightway took his journey. For example, I recently read a true story, about an auto mechanic who lost his sight, but kept his job. He realized that a car's engine is crammed into a tiny compartment, and that most of the time, the part you're fixing is out of sight anyway, so what difference did it make? (Have you ever tried to turn a screw inside a little hole? At an angle? Sighted or not, you still have to go by touch!) I heard of another case where a guy used to be a computer graphics designer. After he lost his vision, he couldn't do that job. But, because he could still walk, hear and think, he went back to school and became a lawyer.

Several years ago, I began writing stories featuring a blind woman. I asked myself, "What would she do for a living?" I decided to make her a language teacher. Logically, this would be a perfect job for her. After all, you don't really need vision to teach language. You're supposed to teach language by phonics (sounds and their interpretations). She can hear and speak, so why not? Now think about this. When a person learns to type, they are trained to look at the computer screen, not the keyboard. You simply memorize it. You know how it goes: A S D F J K L ;. Of course, this means that a blind person must be TAUGHT something, and must practice it. Just going to camps, rock climbing and "beep baseball" doesn't
accomplish very much.

David Lafleche

**29. That is all well and good but my problems are that when I met with my counselors they never evaluated menor told me about opportunities, since I don't know about these offers and vending operations, etc. I mean before I went blind I was in the clerical field for at least 20 years, I have the experience I just need the training to adapt to get back into the workforce and my Vocational Counselors are not doing what they are paid to do, and for that I feel our state agencies don't do there jobs properly so we can get out there and do our jobs. sorry I have a bad taste in my mouth from CMVH here in NY. And to answer the question that people are thinking, I have called my local CAP and you know what after three times of calling them and people just taking down my name and number no one has gotten back to me either.

Cheryl Echevarria Brentwood, NY

30. I strongly identify with Jerome, as I was the only blind person in my seven years of college and around my neighborhood. I was like Jerome once, unsure, unable to overcome my disability. Now, however, because I wouldn't quit and had great role models, I'm moving along toward my goal. Thanks for sharing.

Regards,

Ann Chiappetta, M.S New Rochelle, NY

**31. I frequently discuss the fact that there is an 80 percent unemployment rate among the blind with other blind friends. One friend feels that we have not
made as much progress as other disabled people. We are still shoved aside and discriminated against. I have been discriminated against in trying to get
a job as a medical transcriptionist. The personnel manager said I have to read the doctors' handwriting on the job. That is a very unfair requirement,
as far as I was concerned. I asked her if the major hospital used dictaphones. "No, we do not use dictaphones here." she said, back in August, 1990.

Years later, I was told by someone else that I was lied to on purpose. I wasted time training for medical transcribing only to find the job is no longer
available. Now, it is completely automated. I am no longer interested. What really got to me was my last apartment in Nevada was right next door to
the hospital where I was denied employment. I could have had it made: There would have been no problem getting to and from work, but by the time I lived
next door to that hospital, it no longer mattered. The only way I can experience the field of medicine much of the time is by reading medical thrillers. My spelling and typing skills are excellent, but it doesn't matter; it is no longer in demand. And most of the time, Rehab services for the blind trains
you for jobs that are not there for you, or is outdated, then they shove you into a sheltered workshop slot, a human robot for piecework, which has never
charmed me. I never wanted to work in such appalling conditions and wasted one month in a program just so I could pay part of my medical bills, then when
I was let go, I was glad, because I hated packing nuts and bolts in boxes. I have not worked since. The only time I had a job that counted was back in
1994 when I did telephone work for the Multiple Sclerosis Society. I worked from home. I gave up the job because my second sighted husband did not want
to live close enough to the office so I could deliver the worksheets each week. As a result, I was never able to find another job like that. I only had
it for two months. I am sorry I gave up that job because it could have led to something else, and if I did not marry, I could have left Nevada much sooner
than I did, etc. A job is only something many of us unemployed can only dream of. The only way a blind person can get a job without the hangups people
have towards us is if you are working in a family business and a family member hires you as receptionist or phone answerer or something simple like that.

They say a mind is a terrible thing to waste, but what about a blind person's mind? Why can't we say the same thing about that? While sighted folks are
wasting their minds by using drugs and stealing from family members to support their habits, what about us blind folks? Are we to sit on the sidelines
all our lives listening to talking books and popping Paxil because of people being ignorant about our abilities? If only the taqxpayers could know the
truth about how time is wasted training blind folks for nonexistent jobs and how Rehab can string you along for years and years until you eventually give
up and the case is closed when the counselor is retired suddenly or let go by the agency. Those who have jobs don't tell us how they did it and guard
their secrets jealously because they don't want the rest of us to force them off the job. I don't trust Rehab anymore. I have been disapointed too many
times.

I think Rehab counselor is such a misnomer. Why not call them career guidance counselors? I think the system should be overhauled or scrapped and a whole
new program developed. We should do what they did to those on welfare: Workfare for the blind: You work for what you get on SSI instead of staying home
to get it. If you don't fill the bill, guess what? You're fired. Instead of putting us to work packing nuts and bolts with retarded sighties, let's
find something more useful than that: If you can type better than a sighted person, you type. If you can wash dishes better than a sighted person can,
you wash dishes. Am I being too radical?

Mimi

**32. This is exactly what the NFB does with a newly blinded person. I would not wish the loss of vision on my worst enemy, but I have two best friends who have dealt with it. I'm glad that Jerome found these worker types around Samuel. I would leave roofing and construction to them, but since he did it before he got shot, it was good to see him meet them.

Ben Bloomgren

**33. I don't know what others think, but I think it is even more difficult to locate a job because it is more difficult for people who are not blind, and I know a goodly number of people who were hired by large companies and got downsized. Some have gone very successfully into other jobs; while others have not fared to well.

I'd like to see blind people trained with good skill sets that would be useful in a number of jobs, but still, even with good computer and access technology skills, a job can frustrate the heck out of you because the software a company uses was not conceived with blind people in mind, and the original developers are often not consistent in how material is presented which makes it very difficult for JAWS script writers to make it work bug-free, and Windoweyes, as far as I know, doesn't do much better because I don't believe Set files would work well either, if the original software developers don't maintain consistency. The other skill sets would involve good research skills; good presentation; help with image issues, etc.

Darla Rogers ACB-L Mailing List

**34. This TP couldn't've come at a better time. I am once again in the midst of a VR dilemma. I will explain. I had been without a counselor for a little
while, because Counselor Number Umpteen and One had, as my mom and I eventually found out, been transferred to a different office. Mind you that counselor
never even bothered to say anything at all about being transferred, and nobody else did either until late. I was quite honestly so fed up with the fact
that I hadn't made any real progress with any of my counselors, that I had my case closed. That last counselor had in fact suggested to me that I have
my case closed awhile back since I hadn't been able to find a job, but I honestly didn't think much of it at the time and decided to give him another shot
before actually closing my case. However, this is not what my parents wanted so when the newest counselor came along, they had my case reopened once again.
To make a long story short, my counselor wants me to have a second vocational evaluation. He also wants me to go through a rehab-training program which
I went through several years back. I'm still waiting to hear back from someone at the rehab facility, because I want to ask her some in-depth questions
about the program as it is now. A sister of mine recently went through said rehab-training program and got very little out of it. I'm not just basing my
reasoning for not wanting to do this on my sister, but that program is one which has a one-size-fits-all philosophy. Last time I was there, which was around
1997 or so, the technology was rather outdated and part of the facility was totally unusable. Also, they made me take Braille which, although I abided
by their request, I found to be a total waste of time because I had already known Braille from having learned it as a child. One other aspect of this program
which I don't like is that they make you carry a full tray. For some it is easy to carry a tray with a plate of hot food, a drink which is most likely
filled to the brim with one of those flimsy tops that isn't likely to fit anyway, all that while using a cane or a guide dog to know where the person is
going. More power to those people. Granted I've always been a cane user and don't know what it is necessarily like doing all this with guide dog in hand.
But that is just plain dangerous. All explanations aside, I do not want to go through this program again, or have another vocational evaluation, simply
because they are and have been a big waste of time. The other participants, particularly in the vocational evaluation, were at a much lower skill level
than I was and I didn't learn much of anything in the way of job skills. I was never taught what all to expect in a job interview. Sure I know that an
employee, or even a potential employee, must be punctual and must have the desire to work. I for one certainly do have the desire to work but just haven't
been given the opportunity. Sure, I might meet some people down there, and that's great! Who knows, one or more of them could have the same eye disease
I do. But meeting people and socializing is not really the whole point. I can socialize here where I live, while at the same time working with a qualified
job coach. Most if not all the other program participants last time were only blind but for most of them, partial or total lack of sight came later in
life. The majority of them struggled greatly with their blindness, and I guess I just felt very out of place because I have never really struggled with
my blindness. I was born blind, and there was never a time when I felt bad or depressed about it. I'm not trying to be insensitive to those who do get
depressed about their vision loss, but I guess I just didn't have much in common with these people.

What does all this have to do with the topic at hand, i.e., where do the blind work? Well I think it has a lot to do with this topic. It is just a simple
fact of life that one size does not fit all. Nor will it ever fit all. We all learn things differently, and not everyone is going to be extremely extremely
gifted and talented at everything and all that. That's why the system as we know it is completely broken and out of sync. The system, or the better part
of it, only focuses on the extremely gifted person who can function at an extremely high level. The other thing is that even with all the proper training,
everyone makes mistakes. Yes, even we "the blind," who according to some are supposed to be perfectionists, do make mistakes. One of us could be having
a rotten day, or one of us could possibly have other disabilities in addition to our visual impairment. Wow what a concept! In addition, those of us who
happen to not fit the mold of how a blind person should be, are not told everything we need to know in order to make informed decisions about our future.
This includes employment. There are tons of jobs blind people do, but if the VR counselors would stop running our meetings for us I think there'd be a
much greater chance of things going smoothly for us clients. Heck, some visually-impaired people even work as VR counselors or rehab instructors. I was
once asked by a member of my state VR agency if I'd like to work there, but nobody ever did get back with me on that one. I think I could do great things
for my state agency if I worked in VR. In addition, communication needs to be drastically improved. For instance, clients need to be properly notified
of any changes in our cases, including new counselors. Also, client material needs to be dispersed in an accessible medium, i.e., one which the client
can read independently. This brings up a question. Do clients' files, or are they supposed to, get transferred along with the clients? What I mean by this
is when a client gets a new counselor, is that client's file supposed to be automatically taken over by the new counselor, or does everything just start
from scratch with each new counselor? With each succeeding counselor I had, it seemed as though they all wanted to totally reinvent the wheel. Also, what
exactly is included in a client's file besides contact information and past work history if any? I know I'm being rather blunt here, but the reality of
it is that the system needs a major overhaul and there needs to be some way of leveling the playing field. Either that or VR needs to be scrapped altogether.

Jake Joehl Evanston, Illinois

**35. The question in the narrative was as follows: "What were they stressing as the deep-down reasons that lead them to where they are at today?" My answer to the afore question is: "I can do it." Whether you are sighted, blind, or have some other kind of disability or illness, you have to put in your mind that nothing is going to stop you and that you can do it. It's when you say that there's absolutely no way or that "I cannot", that's when you'll have the obstacles you have put in front of yourself to contend with. You will also have difficulty overcoming the obstacles people also put in front of you. Just because the former construction worker is now blind does not mean that he has to abandon construction work altogether. There may be some things he cannot do anymore, but there's still plenty of work he can do--drilling things, cutting things with different kinds of saws, nailing things, patching things, etc. I'm not an expert on construction, but I know enough to do basic construction work around the house. What I have learned from personal experience is that much of construction is by sight and feel, combined. For example, when you are patching a wall, you can tell what needs to be patched and whether or not it's flat or bumpy. When you are nailing something together, you can also tell whether it is straight or crooked. Some of those minor things cannot be seen by the naked eye but can be detected by feel.

Linda USA